PCM's Kristyn spoke to Mike Rawlins, producer and director of the film Porampo: Pirates of the Malacca Straits. The two discussed maritime security, in particular the not oft-mentioned issue of piracy - and not just the Blackbeard or Captain Jack Sparrow variety! They also talked about the making of the documentary and Rawlins' upcoming projects.

K: Hello Mike, how are you doing today?

M: I'm good. How are you?

K: Not bad! So let's get started... Can you tell our readers a little about yourself? How did you get started in filmmaking?

M: Well what happened was, I have been a merchant marine for the better part of 15 years and everyday out at sea you get these Pi Raps, which are piracy reports - stories about crew members being robbed, beaten, killed, and all they have are fire hoses to defend themselves. So I began to get tired of seeing countless reports all the time. So half jokingly, I told my watch partner out at sea that someone needs to look into this and,well, it might as well be me. And I started out thinking in terms of a documentary on modern piracy because really a small amount has been written about, a few things here and there, and I got the bug I guess you could say. I put a small crew together and we traveled to Southeast Asia and started working the trenches trying to get inside piracy, so it started in the Arabian Sea in the middle of the night.

K: So why do you feel that issue has been pushed under the rug?

M: Well, there are a couple of things. One is that companies try to cover up piracy. It costs the ship over 25,000 a day to detain it from piracy investigation. it's bad publicity to let the world know that your employees aren't really allowed to protect themselves. They would rather the pirates be armed than the crew members be armed because maybe they'll go ballistic and may use the weapons against the captain. There is also the fact that people like to keep things on the other side of the horizon. You know in a romantic state of mind, the Titanic sinks nightly on the Las Vegas Strip with show girls, but I could never imagine the space shuttle Challenger blowing up nightly. That would be terrible. A single engine plane crashes and one person dies; that makes a pretty big news story. A yacht disappears with 30 people on it. Made the news one day and then there is no follow up on it. So there's kind of this mystique about what happens in the ocean, that it's not really real. It's maybe because it's got this mythological attachment to it; something I've never been able to put my finger on. And so piracy has been getting more play, but still when you talk to a person on the street, they think you're joking about it. Give them Johnny Depp and the eye patch, not 2008.

K: Right, that's what has been drilled into everyone's head, you know, with the Pirates of the Caribbean movies.

M: That's what people like; it doesn't sound so romantic to have some guy with an AK47 in a mask on a speed boat with a cell phone. It's a lot more interesting to have a long sword come swinging in on the deck of a ship. And I know a few people who have gone through pirate experiences and they would tell stories about it but it would never receive any coverage on it, which is really a mystery to me - the lack of coverage for it. Because when you tell people about piracy they really get locked into it; they want to know more.

K: Right. It's definitely fascinating. Do you think the lack of coverage has anything to do with the cruise ship industry?

M: That's a good point. There hasn't been that much piracy against the cruise ships, but it has happened. Actually, there was a case last year against a cruise ship off the east coast of Africa and there was some coverage of that. It's still just the connection of piracy whether it is on a dredge, oil tanker or a tug boat. That's still part of the same scenario. The cruise ships don't want to have people scared out of their minds. So in some respects, they're able to influence the whole scheme, to downplay it. A lot of shipping companies connected with each other, so it's hard to say how much influence they have. But I'm sure they're not very keen on the subject being out there at all.

K: Right. Have you been able to screen your movie in countries like Malaysia and Indonesia? What has there reaction been to the film?

M: Well, they find it entertaining as long as I'm not critiquing a specific division, which I don't do. But it is airing in Southeast Asia, in Singapore. But as long as you not pointing the finger at someone in particular, they don't seem to mind too much.

K: Okay-

M: If you start accusing them of not doing their job, of covering up - I actually make a reference to this. Sometimes police are accused of wearing pirates masks. I think as a generalization they can accept it. Just as long as I'm not putting out some specific division of it.

K: Right. I know that I spoke to the documentary director of the Film Manda Dala. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that or not.

M: Jason Chrome, I've come to know him a little bit. We exchange screening disks

K: Yeah, I interviewed him and he had a lot of problems trying to show the film in South America because of the subject matter.

M: Yeah, he was telling me that, too. I think because it could affect the tourist industry down there. The impression watching his film is that all these people are getting kidnapped, and that can scare the life out of people and they sure don't want that.

K: It did!

M: That's not good, but when I was there we did run into some obstacles. The law enforcement didn't want to cooperate with us for the most part. They had me chasing down inspectors out in the field. But I haven't been told directly that 'your film isn't welcome here.' The main concern, I think, is that I don't dis-praise Islam, because I mention this a lot, how this region is fundamentalist, is some kind of state of government. But I made certain that I wasn't being insulting to the religion. It was more factual. And I tried not to tie in Islam to piracy. It was just taking place in this area.

K: Did you and or your crew ever feel in danger at any time? I read that you were able to catch a pirate raid as it was happening. How did you manage to pull that off?

M: I'm still trying to piece that together. (Laughs) We were working the trenches, going into the rain forest, on the docks, going up to large ships asking if we can interview the captain. Since they were caught off guard, they said go ahead and we did a lot of hard work and made contacts and ran into a particular group that was intrigued with telling their story to let people know that they weren't criminals. Of course their identity was not exposed. One day I got a call from my partner and he put these contacts together. He said, 'Brother, it's one. Just be outside the hotel in 2 hours.' So I'm standing there with my cameraman and a van comes by. We get in, they drive out the city about 45 minutes and all of a sudden down this mud dike, in a rice patty. There was a boat under a tree with five heavily armed men in masks and we start filming and they told us to leave. Then I got another call saying it's on, be outside the hotel. Here comes the van again, this time we're going down a different road, the headlights are blinking on and off, the driver getting out getting into a house, walking into the beach. I can hear the surf. I see a boat in the distance with eyes staring at me. Very little conversation and my interpreter saying 'get in.' So as far as danger, I was more concerned about ourequipment getting ripped apart. I was so tunnel visioned with it I didn't want to open my mind up to the danger element. But when I was in the boat, I rarely looked behind me. I was up towards the front with a point man on the bow; he was the one supposedly looking for the ships. He was talking to the translator next to me. He had kind of a Charles Manson-type quality he may have been putting on a show, but I wasn't going to say anything about it.

K: There was probably a certain amount of adrenaline going on, too.

M: Exactly. I'm pretty much just looking straight head at this time, but my cinematographer, he looked back, he filmed them. I know one time the engine calmed down. I peered around and they were very angry and I just turned away. You know, God help us. A question that has come up is were you prepared to actually climb on a ship and film these guys putting a gun to the captain's head. I was trying to walk a fine line between observing and participating. As far as was I legal... I don't know. I just figured I was here, let's just see what happens. I asked them what if the police come out here; they said they would cover me in plastic and drop the equipment off the side. So that way they were just guys out in a boat at two in the morning. I was thinking, I'm pretty good at thinking on my feet.

K: Oh definately. A lot of your journal entries that are on the official site- do they follow closely with the film?

M: Yeah, they do. Well, it's toned down. The film was designed to be chronological, but it's done to an hour format. The film was condensed from those journal entries, basically. At the end of each day, I would sit down and take a lot of chicken scratch notes and I had a hard time deciphering them later, but that was the goal, to make contacts. I actually thought in the beginning that I would journey into some pirate village, if there was such a thing. But the people we made contact with, I didn't know anything about their background. I couldn't see them; there is no pirate village out there. Some are there politically, some are there to feed their village, some are cops by day, pirates by night.

K: Okay.

M: That was the appeal of this group. They said they weren't like the others out there hijacking the United Nations charity ships; 'We're just some guys making a living.'

K: Right, it's almost like a day/night job.

M: Exaclty. I tried to figure out how often they were successful and it just depends. One person thought it might be one out of seven times. That could depend on many things an, if they think if they can get caught, they won't do it. So it was basically chaotic about if they were going to do it. Some wanted to keep going, some wanted to turn back. And all I know is that at the end of the sequence, they went back to shore and just told us to get out. But then they were nice enough to light the way with a flash light; I thought that was a little strange. You know, a little humanity in there.

K: It could have honestly been a showing off kind of thing.

M: Right, the translator said 'They angry,' and I though hopefully not too angry at us, and more angry at the situation. I thought, 'what are they going to do with us now?' But they just pulled the boat on the beach and just handed us our equipment and took off.

K: So I see you have a deal in the works with a TV show? How did that come about?

M: Its being put together by a media production company in Toronto. They approached me with this idea about a series. It would have been the last thing to cross my mind, doing a series. But the more I thought about it, I though it would be a unique idea. So we're hoping that I would be the rudder to steer the ship. I think I would be considered the series creator, and hopefully it will be put on the air in Jan 2009.

K: Are there any plans for a US release?

M: That's what I'm hoping for; there's a lot of discussion about that right now. There's a lot of positive talk about it; there's a lot of interest for it. Up until now, no one could decide what the format would be for it. Would it be reenactment, or would it be like Dog the Bounty Hunter? Would go out like we did to make contact? It would be difficult to go on a pirate ride; nobody could guarantee that. Still, there are risk issues. The main sticking point is there is so much piracy all over the world, you could take your pick where you would want to go. So that's were the series stands right now; trying to strike a deal in the US.

K: Well we wish you luck with that. Do you plan on making more films? Anything next on the horizon for you?

M: Yes, the next project is called "Runaway Ship" about modern slave shipping. Basically Flag of Convenience Ships, which carry the flag of a nation other then the country of ownership, where you have ownership from one country, management from another, crew members another. Paying inhumane wages, having crew members sharing beds, infestation of cockroaches, not getting paid for a year and then stranded in containers in the islands. If they speak out, they get blacklisted or worse. This is going on in 2008 ships that are dangerous because they are registered in countries like Panama and Liberia. What I am going to do is go to places like the Phillipines, Kenya, Ukraine, and talk to guys on these ships. Put hidden cameras on them and go onto the ships and film the conditions. Whenever they get tipped off by the inspectors, it's like a depressed nursing home. They get a fresh paint job, remove cobwebs, everything's wonderful. So we have to get in there with the element of surprise. These people are like indentured servants. So that would be my next project.

K: Would you like to use the same crew?

M: I would like to, if we can all line up our schedules. Some of the guys I work with are merchant mariners and ship out for half the year. But definitely especially Bob Duke. I have to credit him with making the contacts. Getting to know the people and getting people to do things for him.

K: Well good luck with that one. It definitely sounds like a fascinating subject.

M: Well that one, I anticipate having more difficulty then the piracy one. This could specifically name names. I really feel for these guys and they're afraid to speak out. And the companies who ship goods and services on ships don't like the fact that their goods and services could be stolen, hijacked. There are a whole umbrella of topics and I want to keep going.

K: Yes I can see Runaway Ship being more of an exposé.

M: Piracy was more to get peoples' attention. This one I'm not looking to nail companies, but come what may.

K: So what has the reaction been in the United States?

M: The biggest reaction is that there is actual raid footage. That's what people really want to see. There's a buzz about it because its so unique and of course people are saying, 'How were you able to do this?' People look at me like I'm riding on some bank robberies. There has been curiosity, excitement and just it was hard for people to fathom. I think it was just luck. People are very hyped up on piracy to begin with, and its drawing people to the present day. So its kind of a shocking aspect to it.

K: So that's all our questions, is there any final message of comment you would like to share with our readers?

M: I think that piracy is everywhere. It's all over the world, and I don't want to scare people, but keep in mind that it is real; it's more then Hollywood! And stay tuned for Runaway Ship.

Porampo Site